Argh Chirping! Help!

[Tina]

This morning I was awakened by repeated chirping, constant non stop chirping from Bailey, I went into the room and he was sitting on the roof of his cage chirping away but stopped and ran over to see me, Alfie was sitting on the window sill across the room and also came running over to see me, so I sat with them a while and the chirping stopped, but Alfie started chasing after Bailey a few times. Once they seemed to have calmed down I left the room to make some coffee and soon after the chirping started again, quite consistently. This time when I entered the room the pair were sitting side by side on the roof with Bailey chirping repeatedly and Alfie joining in with a different sound of chirp now and again. Again they came running up to me, and Alfie would give chase to Bailey but just short mini chases before staying put but they both were sitting side by side on my shoulder happily and not fighting. For now the chirping has stopped but I was wondering what might they be doing it for? I was told both are males when I got them and i'm no expert in sexing them so I couldn't pass judgement on eithers sex. Nothing is changed or different that could have caused upset and they havn't done it before. Bailey is looking a little fatter than Alfie but neither are over weight. Any clues as to what might be going on would be appreciated

[DayleC]

Might have been something they saw out of the window that gave them cause to be alarmed ....    If you can get pictures of their "undercarriages " We could sex them for you   

[Tina]

Thanks Dayle, i'll set about trying to get some pictures, they aren't usually very still but bailey has been quite still most of today which is another odd behaviour, as Bailey is usually most active, i've noticed a few strange behaviours with Bailey in the last few hours since the chirping, he's been lying on his back trying to dig under the rug and Alfie will go up and sniff around Baileys nether regions to which Bailey shoots off to the other side of the room like a bat out of hell :S Or Bailey will be still sitting and when Alfie goes to check him out Bailey will run away. I never thought about the possibilty of seeing something out of the window, it's very possible that could be the reason. I'll still try and get pictures to be sure though, because the worry for me now is that if one may infact be female, I am sure they are from the same litter, i'd need to double check but I think they are, so obviously in that case I don't want them mating. Luckily i'm thinking it's a bit late in the year for mating, though i'm no expert, but i'd imagine that season has been and gone, so hopefully they are just being crazy.
*grabs camera* wish me luck!

[Tina]

No luck in getting a picture, neither of them will stay put long enough to get a clear picture, and it doesn't help I only have my phone for the time being as hubby has taken off with the camera! I'll try again later in the day when they settle a bit and I have the digital camera. I did get a few quick looks and they look pretty similar except Alfie has quite a pronounced "bump" in the genital region where Bailey doesn't seem to. It's hard to tell. I watched the video here http://www.super-chipmunks.co.uk/chloe-chirping.php though and Baileys chirping sounded identical to that. So i'm still in the dark. I'll need to try and be patient until until I can get a picture of them I suppose.

[jennyb]

Hi Tina, i have a feeling that Bailey might be female, if the chirping has been all day it does sound more like a mating chirp and if Bailey doesn't have the lump down there it sounds more like a girl.

Until you can get some pictures, i have some pictures that may be able to give you an idea of their sexes.

This pic is some very young babies - 22 days old. The boy is on the left, girl on the right. With this baby photo you can tell male and female apart by the distance between the genital openings, it is further in males.

I'll also try and find some more mature pictures of the same babies

In the second pic the male is on the left, female right. The males bits are now quite developed. In another 6 months these babies will be sexually mature. You can see the female looks just like the 22 day old female.

Pic three is a mature adult male
Hope these give you some idea

[Tina]

I decided i'd rebuild the smaller cage and keep them seperate till I could be sure of their sex so I got the old cage out and started building it back together, and upon entering the room to put them in their cages, I walked into one mounted on the other, I seemed to disrupt them obviously and they parted and ran over to see me but now the question is did they mate? Or did I disturb them before they got down to it. They were as still as could be when I walked in and it did take them a little minute to seperate from each other. I would like to have thought they were playing but it's rare for them to be so close together at the best of times unless they are pinching each others food and it would be a very coincidental position to be playing in. I'm not sure what to do, i've sent the hubby round to collect the camera from his mum's.

[jennyb]

This may not be what you would like to hear but it sounds like you caught them mating. It only takes a couple of seconds for them to mate so although they are separated now it may already be too late. It could be dominance mounting which looks very like mating but the chirping makes me think mating. Sometimes the female will sit still for the male, othertimes she is moving. If these two are siblings there is a risk the babies could be weak or deformed, it doesn't always happen but is a risk with closely related animals.

[jennyb]

i've noticed a few strange behaviours with Bailey in the last few hours since the chirping, he's been lying on his back trying to dig under the rug and Alfie will go up and sniff around Baileys nether regions to which Bailey shoots off to the other side of the room like a bat out of hell

I was just re-reading this bit and Bailey's behaviour sounds like a female attracting a mate. Most of my females will "flirt" with the males. They will chirp and then roll on the cage floor or shelf on their back or side. What Bailey is doing with the rug sounds like that. Once the male comes over the female will lift up her rear and the male will sniff her area. That sounds like what Alfie was doing. Abigail and Hazel would actually directly go to the male and flirt with him. Hermione rolled on the floor but when Asriel attempted to mate her she would chatter and ran off, she wasn't that keen on the mating but Asriel was persuasive. Pearl was the complete opposite, she had no interest in pursuing a male, she would chirp but there would be no flirting and when Asriel tried to mate she would run off too and chatter at him but again Asriel took no for an answer.

Heres some pics of Abigail, rolling (she did this right across the shelf) and one of Hermione in the mating position, she how she lifts tail to one side. And one of Ginger sniffing Abigail who is in the mating position.

[Tina]

Yes it was much like the pictures you have shown! Rolling from the side onto the back along the length of the rug and Allowing Alfie to sniff before darting off. I also noticed the chasing wasn't aggressive and whenever Alfie caught Bailey they didn't fight, instead Alfie would just sniff around under Baileys tail and then Bailey would run off again. I noticed after the mating that Bailey was doing alot of what sounded a bit like a tutting sound and eating alot more than usual aswell as having cheeks stuffed to high heavens. The pair went to bed a bit earlier than usual around 6:30pm as opposed to their normal 8-9pm.
I've decided to trace back to where they originally came from and see if I can find out if they are siblings, i'm still awaiting a reply.
I'm not sure where to go from here, should I continue to keep them seperated for the next few days incase they might try to mate again? Or is it more than likely damage done already? Aside from weight gain, is there anything I can look out for to get an indication as to whether Bailey has become pregnant?
Thanks for all your help, and i'm sorry for bombarding you with questions, i'm just feeling like a bit of an idiot now, I should have confirmed their sexes sooner.

[jennyb]

I think the chasing is part of the courtship and my females rarely attack a male when in season, normally any male can be put with a female at that time.

There is a chance she may continue to call tomorrow aswell. Some females go into the next day. Not every mating will be successful, it may be one mating was enough. You will know in about 14 days. If the mating is not successful the female will have come into heat again. It will be safe to introduce Alfie back in on monday, the female may change behaviour, these are some signs of pregnancy:

1. Aggression towards the male, not letting him near, chasing him away from her, chasing him away from nesting area
2. Eating cuttlefish
3. Nestbuilding, adding extra bedding to nest. Stealing bedding from male.
4. Teats appearing through belly fur.
5. Scratching her belly

With Abigail and Hermione it wasn't until the third week that the teats became very noticable and it was also then that i noticed a small increase in size. Same with Hermione, no size increase until third week. It wasn't until the final week that they got the largest and also the teats became very noticable. The belly does become pink as the fur thins.
My first clue though both girls were pregnant was they didn't call again after mating with the boys.

Heres some pics:

In the first Abigail you can just see a slight bulge in the lower belly area. She was only 16 days pregnant here.
Second pic Abigail was 23 days pregnant
Pic three Abigail is 24 days pregnant, now you can see
Pic four 24 days pregnant, shows the clear teats.
Pic five 24 days pregnant shows teats and large size

Next set is Hermione pregnant:
Pic one Hermione 24 days pregnant, can just see teats
Pic two Hermione 29 days pregnant
Pic three Hermione just hours before she gave birth, 31 days pregnant.
Pic four - Hermione just hours before giving birth, 31 days pregnant.

Length of pregnancy is 28 - 35 days with 31/32 days usual

[Tina]

Thanks, you've definitely given me a better insight into what to expect. I'll just alternate them in turns getting out tomorrow and hopefully it hasn't been succesful this time round. I guess i'd had better start preparing for all eventualities though. I have a friend who has a couple of females and she says most breeders are careful not to sell a mixed sex pair from the same litter and that most breeders can tell males from females. So she has given me some hope that they might be from seperate litters, but I wont get too excited until I hear back from the original owner. And i'll certainly keep them seperated until it's safe to let them back together. If they are from seperate litters then there's always next time. But for now it's definitely a risk i'm not prepared to take.

And I should add, such lovely girls you've got

[jennyb]

Yes a breeder should never sell siblings and should know how to sex them its not that difficult i sexed mine from 11 days old. Good luck that they aren't from the same litter.
Thanks about my girls, have you seen Hermione's babies? Well their no longer young babies now, they are six months old but they are such a sweet litter. The pics will make you look forward to your own litter  whether now or in the future.

I miss having babies, they grow up so fast, cannot wait until next year 

[Tina]

Aww *goes to have look*

[yoshi]

This morning I was awakened by repeated chirping, constant non stop chirping from Bailey, I went into the room and he was sitting on the roof of his cage chirping away but stopped and ran over to see me, Alfie was sitting on the window sill across the room and also came running over to see me,

i recently got 1 chipmunk and was wundering o you just leave them in a oom by them elfs over night?

[Tina]

Hi Yoshi,

Yes they are in the room over night by themselves, but they are in their cage at night, however my hubby always lets them out of the cage when he gets up for work, even if I am still sleeping, as i'm usually not far behind him in waking up. However we took great care in making sure even the tiniest of little holes we found were sealed up and that we dont use any electric appliances in the room to be sure they dont chew through cables. But through the night they do go back into their cage.